The Eccles Branch of SPUC will form its Pro-Life Chain on Eccles Old Road (between Lancaster Road and Tootal Drive) on Saturday 30th April from 11am to 1pm.

In the current edition (November 25) of the Salford Advertiser there are two letters on abortion.  The first letter is headed “No right to kill an unborn child” by Father Robert Livesey of St. Mary’s RC Church in Eccles and reads as follows:

“David Milne is, surely, correct in stating that an abortion, which happens spontaneously, should, in no way, be the cause of any sense of guilt to the mother as she is not, morally, responsible for the death of her child in any such circumstances.”

“However, it is an entirely different matter when the mother, deliberately, decides to have an abortion.  In this case the mother is responsible for the death of her unborn child.”

“The issue at stake is the fundamental right of the innocent, unborn child to life.  Direct abortion conflicts with this right and cannot be morally justified.”

“Nobody has the right to kill an innocent person which includes the unborn child.”

The second letter is headed “Evangelism can cloud judgement” by David Milne of Higher Broughton and reads as follows:

“Richard Carvath allows his evangelical Christianity to cloud his judgement and he continues to feed the public misinformation.”
 
“A natural and spontaneous abortion results in a fertilised egg or embryo (and one which may even be perfectly healthy), being lost.”
 
“We do not charge the mother with murder.”
 
“The egg/embryo is NOT a baby, child or a person, no matter how many times Richard may inaccurately claim that it is. Similarly, no one is ‘murdered’ in an artificially-induced abortion, because there is ‘no one’ present to be murdered.”
 
“He then continues this faulty logic with the outrageous idea that I am saying ‘that murder is not morally wrong’, but in so doing, he is, by default, implying that the medical profession, an organisation dedicated to the health and well-being of the general public, also holds ‘murderous views’ similar to my own.”
 
“Does he REALLY think that doctors would murder babies?”
 
“I would refer him to the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee ‘Scientific Developments Relating to the Abortion Act 1967′ – 12th Report – Session 2006-7, which is freely available online, where he can read for himself their thoughtful in-depth discussions, and which also includes input from a number of anti-abortion organisations as well.”
 
“Richard should focus his ‘pro-life’ zeal on attacking those Catholic bishops in Africa, whose anti-condom stance condemns adults to an early AIDS induced grave and orphans thousands of REAL babies and children in the process.”
 
“The answer to this debate is simple: anti-abortionists have the right to choose not to have an abortion, but must equally accept that they do not have the right to remove that choice from everyone else.”

Pro-life supporter Richard Carvath has responded on his blog to the above letter by David Milne with the following letter which Mr. Carvath has submitted for publication to the Salford Advertiser:

“In reply to my pro-abortion critic David Milne, I have a moral duty to defend the right to life of every innocent person from the moment they come into being. We are human beings, not human becomings. A new human life starts at the moment of conception and so throughout pregnancy until birth there are henceforth two distinct persons to consider, two distinct human beings, baby and mother, the one temporarily resident inside the other. An unborn baby is not a part of the mother’s body but is a separate and unique human being.”
 
“Milne justifies the abortion trade by denying the humanity and personhood of any unborn person. In dehumanising unborn babies to justify the killing he keeps company with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, and also with the 18th century owners and traders of African slaves. The Nazis justified the murder of six million Jews by declaring them sub-human. Our country once enslaved Africans by denying their status as legal persons and classifying them not as people but as property. The UK permits the abortion of over 200,000 unborn babies annually on the grounds that those people do not have an inalienable right to life protected by law.”
 
“Can we really comprehend that last year alone, 910 innocent people were deliberately put to death by abortion at our local hospital Salford Royal? To date the number of British military deaths in Afghanistan since 2001 stands at 345. Where in the British media have we ever heard about those 910 tragic deaths and who speaks for them? Only in the Salford Advertiser. They say that ‘dead men tell no tales’ but I shall tell their story until the tyranny of the British abortion trade is broken forever and the freedom to live is the right of all.”

In the current edition (November 18) of the Salford Advertiser there are three letters on abortion.  The first letter is headed “Abortion is always wrong” by Richard Carvath and reads as follows:

“In response to your pro-abortion correspondents published in the Salford Advertiser on November 11.”

“David Milne confuses the issue by mentioning spontaneous abortion – which is another way of referring to natural miscarriage – as though the fact that this occurs somehow justifies intentional abortion procedures.”

“However, natural miscarriage and deliberate abortion are not morally equivalent.”

“A spontaneous abortion is simply the natural death of an embryonic human being and there is nothing morally wrong about a natural death.”

“On the other hand an intentional abortion is morally wrong because it is to deliberately kill an innocent human being – morally speaking such an act is murder.”

“David Milne considers it ‘morally wrong’ to deny a woman the choice to kill her own innocent unborn baby.  In other words he is saying that murder is not morally wrong.”

“Warren Davies also questions the morality of abortion where a mother’s health is at risk.”

“The issue here is the motive behind medical treatment of a sick pregnant woman.”

“Treatment (eg for cervical cancer) should be intended to heal the mother but not intended to harm her unborn baby.”

“If such treatment of the mother does indirectly cause the baby’s death this is not morally wrong as the death was an unintended consequence of treating the mother.”

“However, direct and deliberate abortion is always wrong.”

“Every human being ought to have the right to life from the moment of conception until natural death.”

“This right is denied in Britain and over 7,000,000 innocent people have been slaughtered in the womb since 1967.”

“And millions of post-abortion women have realised too late the awful consequences of abortion.”

“How many more must die and suffer before we come to our senses and ban abortion?”

The second letter is headed “Final decision is very personal” by “Eccles Reader” and reads as follows:

“Re: Abortion Decisions – dry up F Morris of Walkden.”

“The decision to have an abortion is very personal and not a matter which should be influenced by a devout Roman Catholic writing letters to their local newspaper and engaging in persistent arguments with others who oppose her views.”

“The Pope and his pro-life followers only concern themselves with one side of the abortion issues because they are not involved in the every day problems facing a woman considering having a termination.”

“She has to spend years looking at the result of an imprudent liaison or rape, and bonding is a difficult situation.  Procreation should be the consequence of a loving relationship and not a meaningless act of lust.”

The third letter is headed “Conscience is ultimate guide” by “Name and address supplied” and reads as follows:

“In the debate on abortion, I believe it needs to be acknowledged that individuals on both sides are not insensitive and uncaring.”

“These are, for example, doctors, nurses and dedicated parents, whose beliefs are based upon deeply held, and in each case, fundamental convictions.”

“During the war in which I served, conscientious objectors were often vilified for their refusal to take up arms.”

“I recall a group of Plymouth Brethren moving out to rescue casualties, under fire.”

“The conscience, if well informed, is the ultimate guide and should be acknowledged and respected.”

“The Rev R Livesey and I could have a fascinating discussion about when life starts, but my letter was a direct response to earlier writers who wrongly and unjustly sought to invoke guilt in women by claiming ‘they would be the parent of a dead child.’”

“This clearly is not the case, and I would urge those women who are considering abortion NOT to allow any extra feelings of guilt to be induced by people of any religion.”

“Abortion occurs naturally and spontaneously in up to 10 per cent of confirmed pregnancies, and many women will experience an abortion without realising they were even pregnant.  If we include unconfirmed pregnancies as well, the natural abortion rate may be as high as 50 per cent.”

“We already have a system in place where women are aided in making the best decisions for their own personal circumstances, but to deny them their right to choose would be morally wrong.”

The second letter by Warren Davies of Pendleton is published under the heading “Abortion issue is not so simple” and reads as follows:

“In response to J Morris (Readers’ Viewpoint, November 4), so, no one has the right to choose abortion?”

“Well, I have two questions: Does that include victims of rape?  Does that include women whose own life is endangered without recourse to abortion?”

“When you are talking about ‘rights’ J Morris, remember, no one has the right to force any woman to carry a baby she doesn’t want.”

“To think otherwise would show an appalling ignorance of the abortion issue.”

Pro-life supporter Richard Carvath has responded on his blog to the two letters above by releasing the following letter which he has submitted for publication in the Salford Advertiser:

“I respond to your pro-abortion correspondents published in the 11th November Advertiser. David Milne confuses the issue by mentioning spontaneous abortion – which is another way of referring to natural miscarriage – as though the fact that this occurs somehow justifies intentional abortion procedures, but natural miscarriage and deliberate abortion are not morally equivalent. A spontaneous abortion is simply the natural death of an embryonic human being and there is nothing morally wrong about a natural death, whereas an intentional abortion is morally wrong because it is to deliberately kill an innocent human being – morally speaking such an act is murder. David Milne considers it “morally wrong” to deny a woman the choice to kill her own innocent unborn baby; in other words he is saying that murder is not morally wrong.”

“Warren Davies questions the right to life of a person conceived through rape. Two wrongs don’t make a right: a rape is not made right by murdering the innocent person thus conceived. A pregnant rape victim should give birth and have the baby adopted if she doesn’t wish to raise a baby she didn’t willingly conceive, but a rape victim has no right to kill another innocent person. Warren Davies also questions the morality of abortion where a mother’s health is at risk. The issue here is the motive behind medical treatment of a sick pregnant woman. Treatment (eg for cervical cancer) should be intended to heal the mother but not intended to harm her unborn baby; if such treatment of the mother does indirectly cause the baby’s death this is not morally wrong as the death was an unintended consequence of treating the mother – but direct and deliberate abortion is always wrong.”

“Every human being ought to have the right to life from the moment of conception until natural death. This right is denied in Britain and over 7,000,000 innocent people have been slaughtered in the womb since the Great British Abortion Holocaust began in 1967. And millions of post-abortion women have realised too late the awful consequences of abortion. How many more must die and suffer before we come to our senses and ban abortion?”

“Your correspondent, Mr David Milne, shows an appalling ignorance of the abortion issues.”

“Life begins at conception not at birth.  True, before becoming fully formed in the womb, a baby is medically termed an embryo – a rose by any other name!”

“By the time the majority of babies are aborted (18-24 weeks) they are clearly recognisable as a tiny baby.”

“Yes Mr Milne, we should cherish every stage of human development, or there would be no babies at all.”

“Michelangelo’s paintings began with blobs of paint.  If we destroyed the blobs of paint we would never see his finished masterpieces.”

“As for a woman’s choice, half the aborted babies are female – did they get any choice?”

“If a woman truly does not want to keep her child she can turn to the Good Council Network, Life, SPUC or any adoption or fostering agency.”

“They will all help her without resorting to depriving the child of its life.”

“There are also several agencies who specialise in helping mothers who become ill with depression and anxiety following an abortion.  Post abortion trauma is a recognised medical condition.”

“My answer remains the same, choose life – death has nothing to offer you.”

“Think again Mr Milne, no one has the ‘right’ to choose abortion.”

“If your mother, Mr Milne, had chosen to exercise her ‘right’ to an abortion you would not be here to argue the issue.”

“David Milne emphatically states that the fertilised oocyte is a human cell, but it is not a human being.”

“It is interesting that according to the late Professor Jerome Lejeune, an eminent professor of fundamental genetics, it is a scientific fact that individual life starts from the moment of conception.”

“As Professor Lejeune pointed out, that question is never raised except when you want to disregard an embryo.  Never does an expert on mice, cats or cattle ask himself at what moment does a mouse begin, or a cat or cow.”

“We can rightly deduce from this that the human embryo has from the very beginning the dignity proper to a person and therefore ought to be respected and safeguarded in a civilised society.”

The good letter is headed “Abortion never the best option” and reads as follows:

“Your unnamed correspondent (letters, October 7) says that in many cases the decision to have an abortion is an unselfish act.”

“Abortion takes the life of an unborn child.”

“Does she really believe that killing a child, born or unborn, is in the interest of the child?”

“Women faced with an unwanted pregnancy are in a very difficult position.”

“But help is available.  There are alternatives to abortion, and abortion is never the best option.”

“Women who have had abortions often suffer post-abortion trauma.  Help is available at pregnancy-helpline.co.uk.“

“Stuart Cunliffe, Madams Wood Road, Worsley.”

The pro-abortion letter is headed “Women deserve right to choose” and reads as follows:

“”ANTI-abortionist Frances Morris uses emotive language and wrongly tries to convey the idea that a woman who has an abortion is ‘the parent of  dead child’.”

“This is completely untrue.”

“The fertilised oocyte is a human cell, but it is NOT a human being.”

“The embryo is NOT the newborn child.  Abortions do not kill children.”

“We do not have to cherish every scrap of human tissue simply because it may develop into a child.  Nobody could force a woman to have an abortion if she did not want one, but Frances seeks to remove the right to choose from all women.”

“She may like to consider whether we should revere the blobs of paint on Michelangelo’s palette, or his finished painting?”

“David Milne, Manley Street, Higher Broughton.”

Pro-life supporter Richard Carvath has published on his blog today the letter which he has submitted to the Salford Advertiser for publication in response to David Milne.  Mr. Carvath’s letter reads as follows:

“In his denial of the humanity and personhood of unborn babies, your pro-abortion correspondent David Milne keeps company with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, and also with the 18th century owners and traders of African slaves.”

“David Milne justifies the British abortion trade’s slaughter of unborn human beings by dehumanising them – even comparing babies to blobs of paint! The Nazis justified the murder of six million Jews by declaring them sub-human. Our country once enslaved Africans by denying their status as legal persons and classifying them not as people but as property. Our country justifies the Great British Abortion Holocaust today – over seven million aborted since 1967 – on the grounds that unborn British people do not have an inalienable right to life protected by law.”

“We all start life as a single cell; at our conception we are a single-cell human being. From there we grow and develop rapidly, from a single-cell human being to an embryonic human being to a foetal human being, and on past our birth from a baby to a child to an adolescent to an adult. From the moment of our conception until our death, we are human beings at every stage of our lives.”

“Lastly, David Milne claims that nobody can force a woman to have an abortion, and that women have the right to choose. The truth is that many women are forced to undergo abortion against their will – notably in China – and no woman has the right to choose to kill another innocent human being, just because that person happens to be the child in her womb.”

“Richard Carvath.”

“According to the 16th September edition of the Salford Advertiser, and I quote, ‘In 2007 there were 724 abortions at Salford Royal, in 2008 there were 858 abortions at Salford Royal and in 2009 there were 910 abortions at Salford Royal.’  Unquote.  The number of abortions at Salford Royal is rising year on year.”

“Whilst I understand that you consider yourself obligated to be a provider of abortion, given that abortion is very bad indeed for one’s health, and often one’s mother’s health, are you willing to adopt and implement a formal policy of discouraging abortion at this hospital, in the interests of women’s health and of saving as many lives as possible?”

Mr. Dalton’s reply to Mr. Carvath’s question can be summarised as “No.”

“RE: City needs to embrace life (September 30).  Frances Morris should realise that in many cases, the decision to have an abortion is an unselfish act by women who realise their circumstances, financially and otherwise, make it unfair and negligent to allow their unborn child to continue its existence.”

“Surely this lady realises that our NHS and social services are suffering from severely over-stretched resources and yet she wants to burden them with further unlimited needy cases.”

“Frances Morris’s sentiments would be splendid in an ideal world but sadly we have no hope of living in such conditions.”

“Those born unwanted are more likely to become the victims of abusers or patronising persons who are out of touch with reality.”

The following week, in the 14th October edition of the Salford Advertiser, Frances Morris’ reply to the above letter was published under the heading “Abortion IS a selfish act.”  Mrs. Morris wrote:

“With reference to the letter ‘Abortion an Unselfish Act’ – rubbish!  Women frequently seek abortion in desperation, or panic when faced with an unexpected or problematic pregnancy.  Sometimes they are pressed into it by the father of the baby.”

“If  a mother is really unable to keep her baby there is no need to kill it.  There are plenty of people who would love to adopt or foster a child because they are unable to have their own.”

“As for our over-stretched NHS – it would be a lot less overstretched if it was not spending £25,000,000 per year subsidising the abortion industry.”

“Far from ‘burdening’ society with further unlimited needy cases, I want to see a society where every person (and most especially children) are wanted and cared for.  That is what social services exist for.  To provide care for those whose parents cannot care for them, either by fostering or adoption.”

“We no longer put criminals to death on the grounds it is not what a civilised society does, yet we do not seem to mind that we have condemned seven million innocents to death since 1967.”

“Abortion does not solve the problem of an unwanted pregnancy.  It makes you the parent of a dead child.”

“Let us make Salford a city where home life is respected and where there is a place for the unborn, the disabled, the elderly and infirm.”

“A city where no one is ‘unwanted’ and certainly not one where women want to ‘selfishly’ kill their unborn baby.  Opt for the culture of life.  The culture of death has only one answer – death and more death.”

“I write in support of the letter regarding the rising abortion rates in Salford.  It is indeed tragic, that when the city is fighting to keep open its maternity services for the new born, elsewhere in the hospital the light of life is being extinguished from innocent babies in the womb.”

“Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Salford were to become the pro-life city of the world?  We have city after city signing up to be a Fairtrade city and recognise the need for justice and peace in trading policies for food and drink, yet there is not one city that is proclaiming itself a pro-life city, where all human life from conception to natural death is loved and respected.”

“Here is a real challenge for the people of Salford, reject the culture of death and choose life.  Embrace a pro-life philosophy.  Live life to the full, open your arms with love and friendship to everyone, especially those who are disabled or disadvantaged.”